38 Comments
User's avatar
robin's avatar

Francis has every right to ask questions

Jake Fern's avatar

Indeed he does.

Sophie's avatar

At least he doesn't use Artifical Intelligence to present his points.

Jake Fern's avatar

If he had he may have seen the errors in his argument.

Carey Richardson's avatar

Agreed Sophie, pathetic to need a machine to be speak for you and as expected with AI, rambling and nonsensical.

Jake Fern's avatar

Thank you for your comment. As I have said many times, feel free to critique the conclusions rather than attack the messenger. Please give me some examples of where it is 'rambling and nonsensical'.

User's avatar
Comment removed
Jun 22
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Jake Fern's avatar

Thank you.

Seraphina's avatar

A breath of fresh air, Jake. Thank you for putting this into words.

While it is important to listen to what people have to say with a critical ear for bias, the mindset displayed by Francis (and others in the cohort) imo is divisive and damaging to the cause. It also is a lazy in the sense I’ve seen them write people off as agents time and again just for disagreeing with them, instead of engaging with their valid arguments.

I knew Ed personally, an intelligent. kind, witty, gentle man who brought so much light to the world . I’m horrified at the concerted effort to sully his memory . It is spiritually repugnant.

(Claude’s analysis is interesting, esp for calling out the technique used! But he doesn’t have that, how you say - “je ne sais quoi” - some of the things he flags as worth questioning really aren’t! )

Jake Fern's avatar

Thanks for reading.. I didn't know Ed but I have friends who did and have said the same. I wonder if Francis interviewed them?? Hmmm.

But ultimately EVEN if Ed turned out to be a wrong'un it still would justify the methods being used and the silly attempt to drag Bob into it.

Jake Fern's avatar

In fact I just spoke to my friend and he said that after attending Ed's wake yesterday he realised he'd known him back in the day as Ed used to go to his club nights. He said everyone was shaking their heads at all the nonsense being spread.

Nat's avatar

I was at the service and went to the pub afterwards to celebrate Ed’s life. I can confirm we were shaking our heads at all the nonsense being spread.

It was a wonderful service by the way, so much love for Ed in the room. Why? Because he cared so much for others, because he made people laugh, because he was a top bloke.

Thanks so much for this (and the first one you wrote) 🙏🏻

Jake Fern's avatar

Thank you :)

Cmk21's avatar

The “abuse” Ed threw their way last year ( it wasn’t abuse he called them maggots ffs ) was cos he was being accused of being a liar and an agent for saying he had written to Lucy in prison ( which he had ) and had stuck up for Nat who had done the same. At the very same time he had been diagnosed with lung cancer!

Petra Liverani's avatar

Ah, so that casts a different light on things.

Barbara Kelly's avatar

Im an older person, done lots of jobs, but art, music creativity is all I’ve ever wanted to do, so had to wait for ‘retirement’. I’m a classical singer, I sing and tone while I sculpt using the resonance to create pieces. Sounds up my own … 😂 but I’m pleased with what I’m making. Website resonantbodies.org. Thank you so much for asking.

Jake Fern's avatar

Your twisted torsos look amazing!

Barbara Kelly's avatar

Always enjoy hearing/reading your views, first heard on ukcolumn. You seem to stand back and assess calmly and clearly. I realise it’s all happening at the moment, everyone in the ‘truth movement’ against each other, obviously a planned aggression. I’m never quite sure why people can’t just be nice and move on. B

Jake Fern's avatar

Thanks Barbara.. I might not have come across quite so calmly in my first response to Francis's dig at Bob but hey ho.. we're allowed to get annoyed now and again!

People on the whole are good but there's a lot that gets in the way of that being expressed :)

Laura's avatar

All this can be cleared up really quickly by Bob Moran explaining things, which anyone with nothing to hide would have no problem with.....but for some reason he seems to have gone quiet on the whole matter.

Jake Fern's avatar

Why on earth should Bob 'explain' anything? What exactly is it you want explaining? You want him to explain why he went to 'Satan's Whiskers'? You want him to explain why he sold a work for £33K? You want him to explain why he thinks AI is rubbish?? What exactly needs explaining?

You all sound like he's been caught in bed with a minor or stealing money from his fans or something. Get a grip.

For Pete's sake this is ridiculous.

Why should he lower himself?

How do you think you would feel if someone you considered a friend wrote a hit piece full of hot air, insinuation and vague accusations based on nothing and then expected you to defend yourself???

If I'd been on the end of this nasty little bitch fest my only response would be huge f**k you.

Laura's avatar

All I know is that I would have no problem explaining myself if I had nothing to hide.

Jake Fern's avatar

Please remember that comment when the government come 'round your house demanding you show them the inside of your recycling bin because the neighbour reported you for bin misuse.

I've heard some weird stuff - but coming from someone who is even vaguely part of this conversation - that sentiment is one of the weirdest.

Judith Chantler's avatar

Unless you are living under a X rock, the question posed to BobMoran obviously required an answer. As none were given that in itself is the answer.

Snullefahaki's avatar

What has he done wrong?

Jake Fern's avatar

good question

Barbara Kelly's avatar

Thank you. I’m enjoying myself. I’m particularly liking the current portrait and conversation with Charles. Interesting to hear where people started out and formed views. Thank you

Petra Liverani's avatar

For a bit of fun this is a guy describing his experience as a hired chaos agent on an early social media platform, SodaHead

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1urlv2GsV3o

Jake Fern's avatar

That's funny.. :)

Petra Liverani's avatar

Prior to the Bob Moran debacle, I wrote a critique of a post by Francis on the moon landings and said pretty much the same thing Claude says here: facts but having poor evidential quality.

"Instead of taking someone’s words, deeds and actions and evaluating them critically, something much vaguer and more sinister is taking place."

I think this is the main point.

The main criterion surely for making claims of "agent" are: does there seem to be an aim of undermining of the opposition?

What are the two most important ways of undermining the opposition (and indeed undermining us all)

--- Spreading lies and propaganda

--- Causing chaos, ie, causing division among us

If we apply this lens to Francis:

--- He propagates the lies of very clear agent, Dave McGowan, on the moon landings.

--- His post on Bob Moran has caused division

What similar claims can be made about Bob?

According to my criterion I might think Francis is an agent himself except I don't because even though he might seem to meet the criterion I don't perceive that his aim is to undermine, that's just what he's done ... and nothing those in power like better than for US to do their dirty work unintentionally.

Adam Dimond's avatar

Excellent points.

Jake Fern's avatar

Cheers Adam :)

Sophie's avatar

I stopped when you start using AI. Are they not paying you enough? It really is a full time job trying to take down Francis and defend Bob.

Jake Fern's avatar

Stopped what Sophie?

What's pay got to do with it?

Part time.

Barbara Kelly's avatar

These are trying times. Our creativity is the way forward and takes us away from the crap. I’m a singer and sculptor and it helps so much. I look forward to seeing you in Cornwall in September. Thank you for all your hard work. B

Jake Fern's avatar

Oh my wife sculpts.. harder than painting in my opinion.. what do you sing? :)

Jake Fern's avatar

Thank you :)